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"OUCH!" biting reprimands?

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Old 05-28-2017, 07:10 PM   #11
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Bernie is 6 months old, , I hope this bullying is just a phase
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Old 05-30-2017, 04:45 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malachi View Post
You can also try a brief time out in cage if need be. That can sort of 'reboot' the mood of your bird. I've used it with good success with many birds over the years, along with teaching them "no bite."
Malachi, how is "no bite" different from "no"? Do you use the same neutral but stern tone? Do you have a gesture that goes along with it? I was surprised to see Odin learning "no". At first I did it with a pointed finger but now am trying to replace that with an open palm (sort of like a high-five) as I've read that pointed fingers mean aggression or, worse, mating.
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Old 05-30-2017, 04:47 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheBeans View Post
Also, it's not a good idea to let them sit higher than your shoulder when they are out of their cage---especially on your head. Being the "big bird" in the neighborhood means being the bird that perches up the highest...and if your baby is sitting on your head, it will soon think it is the boss of you! If Dima climbs up there, remove her, even if she makes a fuss. She needs to know that you are the big bird!
I've read a couple of scientific studies and expert opinions, all saying that the whole "big bird" theory is bogus. Allegedly, birds have no rank and are all equal. Not sure what to think though...
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Old 05-30-2017, 06:56 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by myster_pda View Post
I've read a couple of scientific studies and expert opinions, all saying that the whole "big bird" theory is bogus. Allegedly, birds have no rank and are all equal. Not sure what to think though...
I have heard the same. My observation of Jules bears it out. I find very little in her that wants to dominate us. Most of what I see about height is for her safety, convenience, or desires. See goes high because it is safer than being low. She lands on heads when it is the best safest landing zone. She may perch high if we want to put her in her cage and she prefers to be out.
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Old 05-30-2017, 07:49 AM   #15
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I've never really bought into the whole dominance theory of flock mentality. Parrotlets do think that they are HUGE birds, but that doesn't mean that they are flock leaders. Wild flocks never seem to have leaders, and parrots don't seem to want to follow leaders. Instead, it is more like negotiating within a family of equal rank. Parrotlets do bite (especially when scared), but becoming "flock leader" won't stop that in my opinion. Tumi doesn't want to follow the leader. He isn't allowed on my shoulder not because it is high, but because he bites my neck when it moves (OUCH!). But I do put him on my head when needed, because he can't get into trouble there.
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Old 05-31-2017, 01:46 PM   #16
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Very insightful. Thank you for sharing.

I'll copy and article I saved:

by Sally Blanchard
Find out how to meet your parrot's needs and establish guidance before his behavior becomes a problem.

This article is copyrighted and may not be reprinted without the written permission of Sally Blanchard.

House Cleaning Day
[IMG]file:///C:/Users/PDA/AppData/Local/Temp/enhtmlclip/Image.png[/IMG]The Yellow-collared macaw napped quietly on his T-stand. When Robbie, his caregiver first rushed him into the bathroom, Zacky was very wound up. After all, it was housecleaning day.

Cleaning house was tolerable to Robbie only if she danced her way through it to the beat of rock-and-roll music blasting from her stereo. Zacky liked the music, too, and appeared to fancy himself as the lead singer in the rock and roll band. He danced, bobbed his head up and down, and jabbered incoherently. He interrupted his dancing long enough to head for his water dish, where he delighted in splashing water as he frolicked. As he grew more and more excited, Zacky punctuated his mumbled sentences with loud shrieks.

Bad, Bad, Bad Bird


In a dramatic duet with the rock-and-roll singer, Zacky's screams finally became intolerable to his owner. "I've had it! Bad, bad, bad bird!" Robbie yelled as she swooped Zacky up and rushed him into the bathroom to place him on his stand. Shaking her finger, Robbie shouted, "You're driving me crazy. You're such a bad, bad bird!" Turning around to leave, she exclaimed, "You can just stay in here until you learn not to scream!"

The whole sequence of events smacked of great drama to Zacky. He liked the loud music that inspired Robbie to dance and twirl around the house, and, matching her energy, he joined in the fun. His instinctive "call to the flock" encouraged him to compete with the noise in the house. Then Robbie rushed over, plucked him up and, yelling and hollering, rushed Zacky to his T-stand in the bathroom. Just as quickly, Robbie slammed the door and left.

Zacky was still wound up, so he danced a little, mumbled something like "bad, bad, bad bird", and called to Robbie for a few minutes. When he got no response, he looked around the room for something to do. It was fairly dark and quiet, and since Zacky found nothing to do, he eventually settled down for a nap. The fact that Zacky became quiet was not because he understood the cause and effect concept of punishment but because there was nothing for him to do.

During my years as a bird behaviorist, I have heard many variations of Zacky's story that basically boil down to the same thing. Unable to deal with their parrots' noisiness, owners try to punish the birds by telling them how bad they are, then placing them in other rooms or covering their cages. When the birds become quiet, the owners think that they're punishment has been effective.But it doesn't teach the parrot anything about not screaming!

Perpetual 2 Year Olds

I used to be an art teacher, and in college, I found myself fascinated by studies of children's creative development. Children need to reach certain physical and mental levels before they can develop the skills to understand and perform tasks. I often hear people refer to parrots as perpetual 2 year olds, always going through "the terrible twos." In many respects, I think it is a fair comparison. Capable of a certain degree of understanding and learning, parrots are intelligent animals with the ability to adapt to new situations by changing their behaviors.

Not always to the advantage of either themselves or their owners, parrots are also intelligent enough to change their peoples' behavior to suit their own needs. Like toddlers, they are very curious, constantly exploring and testing their environment. Parrots demand that their needs be met, but they have little sense of cause and effect, and they usually have very short attention spans. The same thing is true of young children. Children normally develop beyond this level, however, while parrots are incapable of doing so.

Punishment Doesn't Work

Major behavioral problems can occur when the owner of a parrot expects his or her bird to understand punishment as the consequence of his actions. At one of my bird-care seminars, a woman with a blue fronted Amazon told me that when her bird started yelling, she put him in the bathroom, and if he had been really bad, she left him in there for an hour or more. As a part-time cartoonist, I always picture the "bad bird" sitting on his T-stand checking his little "birdie wrist watch" and saying to himself, "Gee, I must have REALLY BAD! I've been in here for a whole hour!"

Parrots do not think this way, however. I have tremendous respect for their curiosity, playfulness, intelligence and ability to learn, but despite their wonderful potential as companion parrots in many ways they cannot develop beyond the "terrible twos." Parrots do not learn acceptable behavior by being punished. However, the pre-establishment of rules in their lives is effective and can prevent problems.

Just as a young child standing in the corner for a prolonged period loses any understanding of the cause-and-effect relationship between unacceptable behavior and punishment, the parrot sitting on its stand in the bathroom has little concept of why he is there. All Zacky could understand was that one minute there had been lots of excitement, and the next minute he was left alone with nothing to do.

Robbie thought the isolation was an effective punishment for Zacky because he became quiet. Actually, Zacky grew quiet and napped in the darkened bathroom because he was deprived of stimulation, not because he understood that screaming was bad.

The practice of putting Zacky in the bathroom when he screams has only the short-term effect of quieting him while he is in the bathroom. He is not fully capable of understanding that every time he screams he will end up in the bathroom.

If Zacky could be magically transported to the darkened room the moment he screamed, hemightlearn to associate screaming with deprivation of attention, and his behavior might change as a result. Unfortunately, the first response his screaming elicited was drama from Robbie. Although not abusive, she certainly was dramatic with her finger-shaking and yelling. When Robbie picked up Zacky, he saw it as a continuation of the rock-and-roll excitement. By the time he was in the bathroom alone, he had no idea of its correlation to his screams.

Time Progression

Parrots seem to have little sense of time. Humans are both blessed and cursed with a sense of what may happen next, creating their own sense of anticipation or dread. Joan and Rick Franklin named their African grey Greta Graybo because when they first brought her home, she wanted only to be left alone. Fortunately, with the right information about taming and lots of love and hard work, Greta has become a more social bird.

Now the grey regularly announces Rick's homecoming several minutes before he pulls up in the driveway. She struts along the top of her cage, calling out, "Dad's home! Hi, Rick, how's it going?"

The Franklins thought that Greta had an incredible sense of time and was anticipating Rick's arrival each night. My guess is that since African greys have superb hearing that Greta had learned to recognize the sound of Rick's car when it was still several blocks away. Her response was most likely a response to a specific stimulus: the sound of Rick's car. This seemed particularly true since Rick didn’t come home at the same time every evening.

Her ability to associate the sound of the car with the impending arrival of her favorite person is a tribute to both Greta's hearing and intelligence. But a parrot that is placed in its cage or in another room for biting or screaming will not necessarily understand that the isolation is a result of its previous actions, especially if several steps (such as finger-shaking or shouting) have separated the two events.

Cause and Effect

Understanding time progression is important if a parrot is to comprehend cause and effect, the concept that if one thing happens, another predictable event will follow. The basic principle of punishment is that a person (or parrot) will not misbehave because it knows that something unpleasant will ensue if it does.

In Zacky's case, this would be effective only if he grasped that his screaming would lead to a period of isolation in the bathroom. Because of the time it takes to pick up the parrot and take him into the bathroom, the opposite usually occurs. The immediate cause and effect Zacky perceives is that if he screams, he gets yelled at or picked up. Establishing these patterns may actually work in reverse with the parrot training their unsuspecting owners to provide a drama reward when they scream.

When my now 35 year old double yellow-head, Paco, was about three years old she started to demand that I put her in the closet. She learned this from me. When she screamed, I quickly scooped her up and put her on a dark shelf in the closet. I was convinced that she understood this as punishment because I said nothing to her when I picked her up. I also provided her no drama reward. It took a few months for me to realize that she enjoyed being in the closet and had learned to scream whenever she wanted to putter around in her private little nest cavity.

Teaching Bad Behaviors

Most of the companion parrots I have worked with have actually been taught to behave badly by their owners. Many times, the owners thought they were punishing their companions when they were actually providing the desired response. A young bird sitting on its owner's shoulder may start fiddling and exploring the owner's ear or clothing with its beak. The owner most likely will turn and tell the bird to stop. If the bird continues, the owner may become more agitated and dramatic, and then the game begins in earnest. Then if the person has decided they have had enough, he or she tries to get the parrot off of their shoulder. This often results in the game where the parrot climbs down to that place on your back where he can’t be reached. The more drama the parrot receives, the more fun the game becomes.

Parrots quickly learn to bite or scream (or both) for the drama and attention these actions invariably elicit. The bird screams, and its owner comes rushing across the room yelling for the bird to be quiet, covers the cage and then leaves the room. The bird screams again, and the owner soon reappears and tells it to quiet down. What power the screaming bird has—making the person it most wants to see reappear! A parrot bites, and its owner grabs it by the beak, shaking the bird's head and telling it no! Mating parrots vigorously grab their partners' beaks, so this certainly can't be an effective punishment.

Aggression is met with Aggression
Aggressive punishment is trust-destroying and a positive relationship with a parrot is based on mutual trust. Any behavior towards a companion parrot that is aggressive or abusive can be met with returned aggression. This will eventually destroy any positive relationship a person has with their parrot and once the trust is lost, it will be difficult to win it back. Aggressive and totally ineffective punishment can include hitting the bird, smashing the cage with something, grabbing the bird's beak and shaking it, screaming at the bird, putting the bird in a 'naughty box', and many other unacceptable behaviors from people who should know better.
Guided mainly by instinct when young, companion parrots must learn new behaviors when their natural responses are blocked by the artificial environments they live in with us. They can substitute their own learned behaviors, or we can teach and guide them toward actions we wish to encourage. I set rules for my companion parrots, and they look to me to let them know what is acceptable. It I want Spike on my shoulder, I say "OK" and place him there. He is not allowed to run up my arm, I choose whether or not I want him on my shoulder.

When I come home, I reach into his cage and say "UP" when I bring him out. It is not his choice to come out if he wants to. However, I am sensitive enough to know whether he wants to come out or not and he has 'polite' ways of letting me know that he wants to spend time with me. From my experience, I have realized that parrots seem to bond to the person who establishes the most loving control over them. A parrot whose caregivers have established rules and provided guidance lives a far less confusing life. Establishing a nurturing guidance does not create a "bird robot." Spike is a happy, active and very playful companion who loves to show off all his tricks.

When introducing rules for your companion parrot, consistency is important. If you let your parrot climb up your arm once in a while, he will never understand that he is not allowed to do so. It is important to follow through without what you start.

Establishing guidance through verbal commands or cues is a very successful way to solve behavioral problems. Parrots are just as capable of comprehending and responding to consistent verbal commands as dogs are. When a verbal command is used consistently, the parrot learns its meaning quickly and knows to respond. I use four basic commands "up", "down', "OK", and "no."

Although using the word "UP" is used to get a bird to step onto your hand, its most important function is to provide guidance. Each time you pick up your bird, say "UP" in a friendly but decisive voice. Then have the parrot step slowly from hand to hand, as you say "UP" each time to pattern him. I don’t use laddering as punishment as it can become too aggressive.

I worked with a hand-shy yellow-naped Amazon recently, and within five minutes he was stepping from one hand to the other. When I stopped to allow him a rest break, he lifted one foot and said "UP." I'm amazed how quickly most birds learn verbal commands and understand what is expected of them.

The use of the word "down" applies to all companion parrots, but is needed most for the cockatoo that sticks to his caregiver's hand as if it has been glued there and absolutely refuses to step off. I've watched people vigorously shake their hands as if they had flypaper stuck to them, but the cockatoos manage to hang on or roll over on their backs to avoid going back to their cages.

At Ease

The "OK" cue can be tricky. Because of a fairly short attention span, most parrots will not remain under your guidance for very long. Anticipating that in a few seconds you are going to lose control of your bird, say "OK,' and let it relax. This becomes your decision rather than the bird's. Using the word "OK" is similar to the military command "At ease.' You are still guiding the parrot’s behavior but you are giving him permission to do what he would have done anyway.

I use the word "NO" when I am physically separated from the one of my birds if it is misbehaving. If I am in the living room and I see that Spike is starting down the side of his cage, I will look over with a short but immediate "Evil Eye" and say "NO" firmly. Spike immediately heads back up to his playground.

This word "No" may take some time to teach your bird. In the beginning, it works as a distraction, and often the bird forgets what it was doing. Spike also responds to "Come here.'' If I am sitting across the room and want him to come visit me, I will call to him and give him permission to come down.

Anticipating Needs

Many problems with companion parrots occur because the caregiver doesn't understand how important meeting the bird's basic needs can be. When a person comes home, a parrot usually has two very strong needs; the need for social interaction and the need for food. By going straight to the tame bird's cage, taking him out, giving him a hug, and giving him a special healthy food treat, the caregiver immediately meets the bird's needs—and also avoids having to listen to the parrot scream to get its needs met.

I recently worked with a Moluccan cockatoo named Jeremy, a screamer who yelled so loud whenever his caregiver left the room that the house shook. His caregiver, Kim loved Jeremy very much, but she found his shrieking unbearable.

I applied to this situation what a well-known ornithologist in Costa Rica had explained to me several years ago. When a parrot leaves its mate or the flock, the birds call to each other until they are out of earshot. It occurred to me that one reason parrots in captivity scream when their caregivers leave the room could be to maintain this communication. The parrot may initially vocalize to stay in touch with the person and then finds that when it does scream, the person returns in an effort to quiet the bird.

I know some cockatoo caregivers who had worked out a method of preventing their parrot's screams—a system that satisfied their bird's instinct to communicate without offending their eardrums They taught the cockatoo to whistle a tune when they left the room.

So I encouraged Kim to try a similar tactic. I advised her to continue talking to Jeremy as she left the house and to begin whistling a quiet tune as she made her way down the front steps. Within two weeks Jeremy had stopped screaming when Kim left.

The moment he realized that she was going to leave, he started whistling the little tune. He would continue whistling, and she would respond until she got in the car and drove away. When she came home, she would begin whistling the moment she got out of the car, and instead of screaming, Jeremy would quietly whistle back.

In the wild, parrots call to each other to stay in touch, not to demand that the other return. Having a better grasp of the behavior of wild parrots often helps the parrot owner understand the needs of his or her companion.

Behavior Modification


I have never seen punishment work successfully as a means of modifying a parrot's behaviors. Rather than treating the symptoms of the problem (such as biting and screaming), a parrot owner must treat the underlying problem. With few exceptions, the basic problem with a parrot that misbehaves is that the owner has set no rules and therefore has no control over their bird. Once a bird owner starts guiding their parrot’s behavior, the relationship usually changes quickly. Sometimes the change seems amazing. Many clients have called me just a few days after a consultation, eager to share the remarkable changes in their parrots' behavior.

Zacky, the yellow-collared macaw, was not really a problem bird. Almost any healthy, active parrot would have difficulty sitting through the kind of exuberance and noise its owner was generating without some sort of dramatic response. If Robbie had anticipated that Zacky would become so wound up by her singing and dancing, she could have put him in the bathroom before she started cleaning house and prevented his screams Or she could have realized what a great time Zacky would have — and just let him do what came naturally. Her fear that Zacky’s exuberance would disturb the neighbors seemed both humorous and ironic to me considering how loud she played her rock and roll music.
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Old 05-31-2017, 08:29 PM   #17
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Great article, thanks for posting that!
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Old 06-01-2017, 09:40 AM   #18
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A couple breif thoughts, while I have also heard parrot don't have a flock order (like an alpha dog for example) I do think at the time they are on the "highest perch" they become dominant over you, and I agree with Ozzie sometimes it's just a safety thing. Some birds behave up there and some don't like Tumi and my Melody. Melody lives on the shoulder of my husband and I can't change it. It does become a very difficult place to get them down.
I'm always complaining because I can't train her by myself and my husband encourages bad behavior. When we talk about discipline we don't mean physical discipline EVER. it's creating a standard of "this action = less attention", therefore they learn biting and constant calling will not get them their way. That's why setting them down or a brief time out can be effective.
I know what you mean by running up the arm. Doing the "ladder" can help, one finger over the other so it's a constant step up untill they stay and a time out "loss of attention" when they bite or won't stop running up there. Consistently is the key.
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Old 06-01-2017, 09:47 AM   #19
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I haven't read the whole article just skimming (I don't have time at the moment) but I don't see how "ladder" becomes aggressive, it's the same concept as steping hand to hand.
And I think sometimes calling is contact calling and a whistle or a "I'm here" lets them know it's ok you have not disappeared but sometimes it is definitely "let me out!!!" And can become that is everytime they tell you run to get them out. It's positive reinforcement of a behavior and they learn that's what you will do as a result of it.
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Old 06-01-2017, 12:52 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by myster_pda View Post
Malachi, how is "no bite" different from "no"? Do you use the same neutral but stern tone? Do you have a gesture that goes along with it? I was surprised to see Odin learning "no". At first I did it with a pointed finger but now am trying to replace that with an open palm (sort of like a high-five) as I've read that pointed fingers mean aggression or, worse, mating.
I use the specific phrase "no bite" with my birds in training because I use a general "no" for other issues, for example when a bird is getting into something I want them to leave alone I'll say "no." When I say no bite I don't point but often I'll take hold of the bird's beak, gently, with two fingers saying "no bite" or "gentle." Playfully taking hold of their beak lets them know I'm not afraid of their beak or bite, and it serves to redirect them.
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