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Important Discussion on P'let Pandering

The bird's best interest, or yours?

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Old 03-17-2016, 10:17 AM   #1
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Important Discussion on P'let Pandering

Hey there. I've been a part of this forum since about August when I got my parrotlet. I'm more of a central part of bird blogging (i.e. tumblr) and I've noticed a huge disparity in information-giving and tone when it comes to educating people on their birds.

I gather information all over the place and use common sense and trusted people to verify it. I gather from various bird sites, bloggers, experienced bird owners and educators, and sometimes forums, and putting all these sources up against each other gives a good, well-rounded view of decent parrot care.

What is missing here is being firm about bird care. I see terrible practices being shown here and having nobody comment on it but "I'm sorry that didn't work out! " or "That's rough, but we love you!" and this is NOT okay.

If someone is giving an unsafe environment for their parrot or not giving them all the measures to protect them they are contributing to animal abuse. Parrotlets allowed to be around small children, other animals, p'lets not taken to the vet, p'lets forced to live with counterparts they do not naturally live in close contact with, p'lets being trained with negative reinforcers is animal abuse and needs to be addressed as such. But all I see is pandering when it comes to peoples 'friends' on the forums.

When people have bad husbandry on other sites, it gets addressed politely but directly, not pussyfooting around the issue for fear of anger. be angry. Someone is giving a living creature they're responsible for a worse life because they want something out of their pet that the pet cannot provide.

If you see bad practice, tell them. The word of the forum-ers is not the end-all be-all for info. Go do research yourself. Find out what good practice is.

TL;DR: Do what is best for your pet, not what you 'want.' Do not pander to people or tell them bad practices are okay because they are your friends. Birds are not going to be perfect, and you need to give them all the necessities or you should not own your bird. Thank you.

Example on what it should be: http://talkbudgies.com/introductions...ng-forums.html
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Old 03-17-2016, 11:10 AM   #2
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I love the budgie forums!! Theyre a fantastic model
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Old 03-17-2016, 11:16 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by finchbinch View Post
I love the budgie forums!! Theyre a fantastic model
Thank you! I agree, I wish there was a little more uniformity in the talk[bird] forums.
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Old 03-17-2016, 01:13 PM   #4
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If your referring to our forum here as pandering, or not addressing safety issues or abuse, I whole heartedly disagree with you.

Responses to situations such as you have described are always consistently addressed by the frequent posters and moderators in a very "no nonsense" but "kind" manner.
Bird proofing a house, feeding healthy food, vet care, separating fighting birds, positive enforcement training and more are constantly addressed. You may find questionable advice here or there but not without a prompt follow up from a moderator or well informed poster.

Its not "pandering" to offer some encouragement to do the right thing or inspire hope and camaraderie to a less educated poster, or a new poster, or even someone you feel is just flat out doing the wrong thing. Anger is natural sometimes, but its NEVER necessary to respond angrily to a person asking for help, when in fact you can easily get your point across by being frank, but also kind. To do otherwise, in fact will only discourage the person you are trying to inspire to change or do the right thing, and likely they will not return, respond, or just do what they want as a defense mechanism.

Also, at the end of the day or discussion you cant just "make" someone do the right thing, regardless of how much you openly reprimand them or "scold" them. By responding emotionally You also run the risk of assuming much more than you should, or as I like to say "Answering a matter before you hear it."
Emotional responses are not necessary nor helpful, rather logic, information and persuasion is.

You catch more fly's with honey than with vinegar.
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Old 03-17-2016, 01:39 PM   #5
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I agree with Mrs.JP3. And I'd go one further to say that while I do appreciate your concern for the living creatures who trust us for optimum care and love, I don't recall that it's the members who are 'policing' the forums---that's the job of the moderators!

Fortunately, the moderators are experienced bird owners as well as judicial voices and they will step in when/where it's warranted. If you don't agree with what you see here that's okay too---but unless you are here, reading and contributing on a regular basis and have a better understanding of who the members are and what they are sharing and why, I'd wonder why you are so angry when you don't have the full picture.

There will be a wide disparity in the care and feeding and homing of any pet on this planet---not limited to feathered pets. Same goes for human children. What you may think is irresponsible to some is perfectly acceptable to others. We are all different and we all have differing opinions and views on any topic you can name---our jobs are to listen, to ask and to learn and do the best that we can. Even if that may not be what you think is best.
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Old 03-17-2016, 01:45 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrs.JP3 View Post
If your referring to our forum here as pandering, or not addressing safety issues or abuse, I whole heartedly disagree with you.

Responses to situations such as you have described are always consistently addressed by the frequent posters and moderators in a very "no nonsense" but "kind" manner.
Bird proofing a house, feeding healthy food, vet care, separating fighting birds, positive enforcement training and more are constantly addressed. You may find questionable advice here or there but not without a prompt follow up from a moderator or well informed poster.

Its not "pandering" to offer some encouragement to do the right thing or inspire hope and camaraderie to a less educated poster, or a new poster, or even someone you feel is just flat out doing the wrong thing. Anger is natural sometimes, but its NEVER necessary to respond angrily to a person asking for help, when in fact you can easily get your point across by being frank, but also kind. To do otherwise, in fact will only discourage the person you are trying to inspire to change or do the right thing, and likely they will not return, respond, or just do what they want as a defense mechanism.

Also, at the end of the day or discussion you cant just "make" someone do the right thing, regardless of how much you openly reprimand them or "scold" them. By responding emotionally You also run the risk of assuming much more than you should, or as I like to say "Answering a matter before you hear it."
Emotional responses are not necessary nor helpful, rather logic, information and persuasion is.

You catch more fly's with honey than with vinegar.
I'm not here to catch flies, honey.

If you believe OP's post is angry, you shouldn't take this observation so personally. While it's good to take someone's feelings into account, it should never mask the tools needed to help someone (which is what I believe this thread was trying to point out).

When presenting facts and information needed to answer a question/alleviate a problem, you are doing someone a favor. You are putting the ball in their court and if their pride gets in the way, know that you did the best you can it inform rather than coddle.

There are places to ooh and ahh over people's babies on this forum. They're not the subject of this post.
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Old 03-17-2016, 02:09 PM   #7
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I totally agree with MrsJP3. Everyone has their own methods that work for them and, like child rearing, it's fine to give advice and share our own experiences, but in the end it's up to the owner of the bird to do what they feel is best.

Publicly humiliating people does not work. All it does is drive them away, so they never come back, and miss out on what probably would have been valuable information. Everyone had to learn at one point...and I know that I have totally appreciated a lot of advice I recieved on these forums when I first got my two p'lets.

What I do, rather than call others out for their posting styles, is stop visiting a site that doesn't meet my expectations. That's always a good option.
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Old 03-17-2016, 02:12 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darlene2u View Post
I totally agree with MrsJP3. Everyone has their own methods that work for them and, like child rearing, it's fine to give advice and share our own experiences, but in the end it's up to the owner of the bird to do what they feel is best.

Publicly humiliating people does not work. All it does is drive them away, so they never come back, and miss out on what probably would have been valuable information. Everyone had to learn at one point...and I know that I have totally appreciated a lot of advice I recieved on these forums when I first got my two p'lets.

What I do, rather than call others out for their posting styles, is stop visiting a site that doesn't meet my expectations. That's always a good option.
Like child rearing, I wouldnt recommend getting another child after neglecting/harming the first

Also, instead of leaving, maybe they're trying to make something that doesn't meet their expectations even better!

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Old 03-17-2016, 02:20 PM   #9
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If someone is putting a live animal in danger and does not even bother to consider the advice given then I don't believe it's mean to let them know what they're doing. Again this is not a matter of opinion but a matter of animal abuse. Ive been on here for nearly half a year and have seen many instances of this. Most of the time, people are happy to get advice, that why they're here, but other times they're only here to reinforce a bad idea so they don't feel guilty about it.

I do not condone bad practice and I refuse to be thought of as driving anyone away because none of my posts have been emotional whatsoever until this one. I have given proven sources to back up what I say and am never negative to anyone who's willing to at least listen.

This idea of "It's not your job, that's what the mods are for!" is exactly the issue I'm trying to say. If the mods are not helping to moderate care and are accepting of negligence, I have no issue letting a fellow bird owner know that no, I can't pander to you, I'm going to tell you if you are putting another living creature in danger.

I'm not here for arguments or drama, just pet care and that can sometimes be a harsh reality to people set in their ways. If this isn't an accepted part of this forum I don't consider it a good resource any longer. If you are trying to defend animal abuse I no longer have any respect.

Please recognize worried and outspoken members vs those that are genuinely hurting creatures. Why are you questioning me when there is negligence that is not being addressed by the majority of the community? Is it because you are more familiar to a close friend and don't see the issue? Scared? Feel free to go through my posts and see if I'm ever hurtful. I'm only letting people know the researched facts.

Thanks to you all and I hope I've at least given some of you something to think about. Change isn't always a bad thing, sometimes it's needed.
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Old 03-17-2016, 02:32 PM   #10
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I really don't recall a circumstance where we felt an animal might be in danger where concerned posters didn't step up and give advice, sometimes strongly recommending they try different techniques. Advice can be given in a polite manner, that often works better than publicly embarrassing people.

I'm not sure what else you can suggest we do, other than being rude and bullying towards people looking for help. Clearly we can't go running over and rescue all these birds that are supposedly being abused. All we can do is try to help.

By the way....speaking of sticking up for 'friends' on these forums. Are you and finchbinch close friends? Just seems a little odd that you both came over here preaching at the same time.
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